128: Meet The Math Teacher Who Landed a Data Job in 60 Days (Thomas Gresco)
Thomas Gresco shares his journey from being a high school math teacher to landing a role as a Reimbursement Analyst in less than 70 days. He discusses the struggles of job hunting, the importance of a strong portfolio and network, and how following the SPN method transformed his career.
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⌚ TIMESTAMPS
⌚ TIMESTAMPS
04:10 - The Job Hunt
14:00 - The Interview Experience
20:18 - Life as an Analyst
🔗 CONNECT WITH THOMAS
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🔗 CONNECT WITH AVERY
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Transcript
I was applying to X amount of jobs a day or a week
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:and just wasn't hearing anything.
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:And I gotta be doing something wrong here.
4
:I felt like I had worked really
hard up until that point and
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:I wasn't getting any results.
6
:Avery: And little did you know, two
weeks later, you're going to have
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:a job that you're super stoked on.
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:Thomas: I paid like 12 grand to learn
skills, which is how much you could
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:pay for a master's program, which.
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:In all likelihood, they also
don't set you up with the
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:portfolio or networking, right?
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:So essentially, I paid, I paid for
what would be the equivalent of
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:a master's program and got none
of the portfolio or networking.
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:that I could have done here
first for 11, 000 less and that's
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:the only regret that I have.
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:When we're talking about regrets,
that's the only regret that I have.
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:Hi, my name is Thomas.
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:Uh, I went from a high school math
teacher to a senior reimbursement
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:analyst in less than 70 days.
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:Avery: Thomas, I want to talk about
your whole journey from going from a
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:high school math teacher to landing a
data job, but I want to start with, with
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:a question or maybe more of a story.
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:Um, but basically.
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:You booked a one on one call
with me back in March of:
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:And I remember we did our first
phone call, uh, and I was like,
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:Okay, yeah, high school math teacher.
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:I asked these questions before so
I can be prepared for the call.
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:So I saw like high school math teacher,
but you like knew a bunch of Data skills.
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:And so we got on the call and I was
like, Oh my gosh, this guy is so
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:close to landing a data job because he
has all the skills, but just doesn't
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:actually have like the projects, the
portfolio, uh, and, and the network.
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:So I was like, if he follows the SPN
method, he's going to land a job quickly.
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:Uh, cause you'd be set.
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:Did you feel the same way?
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:And I think just our conversation
really drove me to joining your program.
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:You know, I, I felt like you were
someone that could really help me
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:because I had gone through, and we
talked about it, the, the Rutgers data
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:science bootcamp, where I learned a
lot of these skills and some of them
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:I had learned in my undergrad program.
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:Um, but I just, I wasn't getting
anything, you know, I was applying to
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:X amount of jobs a day or, or a week
and just wasn't hearing anything.
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:And I was like, I gotta be
doing something wrong here.
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:Or, or at least something
I could be doing better.
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:And I felt like through our
conversation, like I could find
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:something better in, within your program.
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:And I think once I joined that
program, it really kind of.
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:Kicked off for me where, you know, I, I
went through the, the skill stuff, like
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:we, like you just said, wasn't, was pretty
easy for me, but then it was the building
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:of the projects, the networking portion,
uh, the building the portfolio, which I
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:think really helped me, uh, land this job.
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:Avery: It's, it's interesting
you said that, cause I
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:remember getting off that call.
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:This was in March, uh, mid March.
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:And I was like, man, this guy is such
a great candidate for the SBN method.
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:I really hope he joins the
accelerator program so we can
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:walk him through that path.
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:Uh, but it still took you six
weeks to, to join the accelerator.
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:What were you doing those six weeks?
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:Speaker 3: Uh, so that was March.
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:And then I guess I joined
one in May, I want to say.
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:Avery: Yeah.
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:Speaker 3: Okay.
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:April.
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:All right.
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:You know, Oh, I remember.
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:Um, so I was going on spring break.
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:From, cause at the time I'm, I'm a
teacher and spring break was around
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:Easter time, so middle of April or so.
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:And I said to my girlfriend, if
I didn't have land any interview
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:before that time, I was just going
to take a chance and join this.
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:Um, so that's what I did.
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:Uh, I didn't have an interview.
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:Uh, I felt really, you know, not
down on myself, but just disappointed
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:almost, cause I felt like I had
worked really hard up until that point
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:and I wasn't getting any results.
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:And, you know, it just kind
of made me want to join more
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:and we got to that point.
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:I was like, I'm going to do it.
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:So I sat down, joined and just got
started and put my head down and
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:kind of worked every single weekend.
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:And also, it made it easier that it's
towards the end of the school year.
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:I'm sure you remember or.
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:Back in high school at the end of the
school year isn't really the toughest
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:on, on the students or really even
the teachers are kind of winding down.
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:So it was, it was easy for me to even,
you know, do work during the day too.
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:Avery: Totally.
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:I understand that.
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:Um, you, you ultimately
joined the accelerator and.
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:You landed a job as this senior
reimbursement analyst pretty quickly.
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:Do you know how fast you landed that job?
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:Speaker 3: Uh, so I started
the program in April.
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:We said end of April and I got that job.
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:I think I had the first
interview in the middle of June.
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:So about a month and a half.
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:Avery: Yeah, I guess I would say I had
from your start day of the accelerator to
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:when you told us that you landed the job.
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:I have a 61 days, so less,
less than two months.
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:And you had been doing like, for
instance, like you said, this data
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:science bootcamp through Rutgers,
like all, not all of last year, but
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:you had done it the year previous.
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:So, so basically.
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:Like I said, you were
so close landing a job.
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:You just need the SPN method.
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:What is, do you feel like that's what
made the difference for you to like, to,
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:to have land that job within two months?
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:Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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:I would, I would say definitely.
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:Cause I felt like I had the
skills, like we just talked about.
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:I just wasn't networking correctly.
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:Uh, I wasn't doing what I had to do
on LinkedIn and you don't realize,
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:you know, coming from the education
world, LinkedIn doesn't really exist.
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:You apply for jobs and you go on the
interviews and you bring you know, stuff
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:that you had done in other classrooms
or in my case because it was right
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:out of college or in student teaching.
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:Um, and that's pretty much it.
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:Whereas for this, this
was all brand new to me.
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:And the boot camp that I took, well all
good and well, I learned these skills.
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:I had no idea what to do after.
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:There was no You know, you should do this
to network with X, Y, and Z, or this is
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:how you should show off your projects.
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:It was just, we did a lot
of projects and a lot of.
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:Uh, little tasks or homework
assignments, they called it,
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:uh, but that was all on GitHub.
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:And like you and I had talked about in
that first call, you're like, that's
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:not really going to do anything for
you because no, um, employer or hiring
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:manager is going to sift through a
bunch of code on your GitHub for like,
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:it's just not going to do anything.
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:Um, so I think SPN definitely made the
difference for me where, you know, I
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:learned the skills, made these projects
and then was able to network and show
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:off these projects in a really cool way.
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:Avery: I think so too.
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:I think, I think you were so close.
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:You had all the skills, you just needed
the portfolio, uh, and the networking.
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:Um, when I went through your LinkedIn
today to like kind of go through your
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:whole journey, uh, you had posted once
about the, the data science bootcamp from
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:Rutgers and it was at, at the very end.
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:Yeah.
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:I think it was maybe just like
the certificate or something.
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:And that's so opposed to how we do it
inside of Data Analytics Accelerator,
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:where like literally day one, I'm like,
post on LinkedIn, post on LinkedIn.
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:You finish your first
project, post on LinkedIn.
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:Uh, so I think that was
one of the big things.
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:And that's ultimately how
you found this job, correct?
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:Was someone reposted it on LinkedIn?
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:So like you said, I had really
never posted on LinkedIn throughout
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:that bootcamp, which is obviously
wasn't doing me any good.
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:And then started posting on LinkedIn.
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:Through the bootcamp or
through, um, our program.
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:And then I just kind of followed people
who you interacted with on LinkedIn and
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:found a lot of them to be posting jobs.
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:And the one guy, I'm sorry,
I can't give him credit.
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:I don't really remember his name or
who it was exactly, but he posted,
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:I think like 10 or so remote jobs,
either weekly, every few days, and.
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:I would just apply to them if I thought
I was a decent candidate for the job.
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:Even if I wasn't really like a
super great fit in layman's terms,
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:I, I just, I thought might as
well apply, can't hurt to apply.
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:Um, so I applied, uh, to this specific
job and I was able to get an interview.
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:I was honestly kind of shocked that
I got the interview with them, but
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:that's, that's what I'm saying.
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:Like you just, you never know.
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:And I think it's really important
to apply and look at these posts.
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:There's a lot of.
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:You know, anecdotal stuff on
LinkedIn and you have talked about
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:posting some stuff like that too.
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:Um, in the, in the data career
jumpstart, but there are also a lot
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:of people who are trying to help
us, like people that are looking
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:for jobs where they're posting jobs.
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:And I think that's really important
to look for and not to get too bogged
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:down in, Oh, this isn't, For me,
because really it's for everybody.
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:Everybody's doing it.
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:You know,
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:Avery: I think you had also
mentioned that that job that you
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:ended up landing required, what,
two to three years of experience.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah, it was 2 to 3 years of
some healthcare or medical experience,
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:which obviously I'm a math teacher.
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:I did.
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:I just did not have, um, and I
can't I think that's what it said,
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:but it said that in the actual
job description, but in the.
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:Original post on LinkedIn
by the hiring manager.
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:It said zero to two
years experience needed.
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:So I was like, Oh, well the original
post says zero to two years.
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:I don't really care what the
job description says right now.
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:Let me just apply and see what happens.
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:So I think don't get discouraged by
a lot of what job descriptions say.
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:You know, a lot of that
could come from the top down.
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:It might not even come
from the hiring manager.
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:It could just come from.
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:What the company as a whole
want that job description to say
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:Avery: at the end of the day,
job descriptions are really more
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:wishlist than they are requirements.
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:So if you fit like 65 to 70 percent
maybe even 50 percent sometimes,
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:you know, go ahead and apply, right?
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:Because you never know what might happen.
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:And that was true for you.
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:And in this case, do you remember if
you was it like a linkedin easy apply?
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:Was it that you did you
apply on their website?
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:Speaker 3: Um, I applied on their website.
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:So it was a link.
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:I just clicked on the link
and I applied on the website.
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:It was really simple.
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:And I think you and I had actually
talked about this in the original call
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:that we had in March, or even, I think
I talked to you again in April or so
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:right around when I joined the program.
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:It was the
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:Avery: DM you sent me, I think.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:And it was, and you said just always
apply on, uh, the actual website.
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:If you can, they're just more likely
to look at that than the LinkedIn,
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:um, like easy apply algorithm.
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:Avery: It's, it's super true.
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:Um, having posted a job on LinkedIn
jobs, let me tell you, uh, LinkedIn,
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:you need to hire a data scientist to
make your algorithm for candidates
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:a lot better because I got over 550
applicants and the top applicants
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:were not on the first two pages.
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:I'll tell you that, like who
they thought was relevant.
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:I was like, this person's not relevant.
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:So that's great.
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:Did you do anything special, cover letter,
send a cold message, anything like that?
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:Speaker 3: Uh, definitely sent a cold
message and it was funny because, um,
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:the person who interviewed me first,
uh, I sent a cold message to her boss
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:and then she said, you know, honestly,
your, your resume was just passed to me.
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:Like, I, someone got a message from
you and that's how I got your resume.
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:And I decided to, you know, interview
and I was like, well, that's awesome.
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:I guess that worked out for me.
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:Um, but I don't think
I did a cover letter.
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:Uh, we might've even talked about this.
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:I think the cover letters, while they're
important, I guess they're way more
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:likely to just read your cold message.
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:If that's what you're sending them,
then they are your cover letter.
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:Avery: Cold messages are
the new, uh, cover letter.
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:I think cover letters are kind of dead.
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:And if you can send a cold
message where it's like, I don't
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:have to read one page of stuff.
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:That's just mostly fluff that
you use chat GPT to write.
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:And instead you can tell me and like.
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:Three to four lines, who you
are, why I should care about you.
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:I think that's so directly to my inbox.
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:I think that's way more impactful.
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:That's awesome.
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:I didn't realize you sent a cold message.
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:I think that's, I'm trying to figure
out like, you know, when, when Thomas is
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:applying, I know you're a great candidate,
you know, you're a great candidate,
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:but how do you convince this recruiter
and this hiring manager that When they
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:have, you know, 500 other candidates
that you're the right candidate.
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:And I think the cold message is one
and then probably your portfolio
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:helped stand out a little bit.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think so.
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:I think just going back to the cold
messages, like I was sending one
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:to every job that I applied to,
uh, or at least trying to, trying
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:to find someone that I could.
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:And I, I believe there's a page or a
couple of pages on our, on our, uh,
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:Like in our book of materials that
you gave us where it just kind of
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:gives you like an outline of what you
should say to these people and that's
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:what I was, I had it bookmarked.
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:I was going back to it every single time.
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:Um, but yeah, they did talk
about my, um, uh, portfolio.
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:I think it was probably
a sticking out point.
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:Uh, you know, uh, person that
interviewed me first said it was
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:definitely super interesting.
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:And like I said to you, uh, she thought
that just based on that, that my
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:analytical skills absolutely qualified
for the job that they were looking for.
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:Avery: That's actually really cool
because, um, You know, you didn't have
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:any healthcare experience prior to this,
but one of the things I tried to do when
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:I designed the bootcamp was each module
has like a different industry theme.
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:And so in module five, we, we cover
some healthcare data using SQL.
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:So, you know, you, you'd maybe never
actually like in a workplace looked at
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:healthcare records, but in this bootcamp,
we had looked over, I think there's like
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:2 million rows in that, in that SQL data.
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:Set that we, we analyze.
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:So you had, you had at least some,
you created your own healthcare
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:experience at the end of the
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:Speaker 3: day.
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:I think I actually said that I was
like, yeah, in my portfolio, uh, I,
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:you know, I had this healthcare project
that we worked on, uh, you know, I
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:tried to pull from family members too.
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:I was like, I have some family that
works in healthcare and you know, you
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:don't want to necessarily lie because
they could ask you follow up questions,
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:but you certainly want to make your
knowledge look a little bit better.
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:And I think that's what I tried to do,
especially using that project that we
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:had worked on in the, in the class.
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:Avery: Hey, experience is experience.
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:No one can take it away.
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:You can just describe it as it
is and they can decide whether
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:they think it qualifies enough.
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:But it's always good
to get that out there.
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:Um, even with that, I think this is true.
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:I haven't talked about that.
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:I haven't talked to you about this before.
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:Um, but, uh, I think after this first
interview, this, this timeline maps
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:up a little bit, um, you went into our
community and you said, just finished the
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:capstone and I had my first interview,
uh, this week, however, it seems like I
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:don't have enough healthcare experience.
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:So I'm not too confident if anything
else, it was a good interview experience.
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:I'm continuing to apply for
jobs and sending cold messages.
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:And you said this great line, some days
it's hard to not feel defeated, but
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:definitely trying to stay as positive as
possible, hoping to land something soon.
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:Was that, was that the first
interview for this job?
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:Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the
first interview for that job.
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:And I'm laughing thinking
about, thinking back to that.
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:Cause I'm really, I got off the call
and I was like, wow, I have no shot.
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:I was like, I don't have
this healthcare experience.
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:And, uh, it just kind of all worked out.
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:I think that's the important thing.
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:Like, if we talked about this
a little bit, just go on these
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:interviews and kind of be yourself.
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:Um, I really talked about my
willingness to learn and want to learn.
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:And, um, I guess they liked that.
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:Um, and I, again, I was really
surprised and I was after that,
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:got the second interview and I
was pretty nervous for that too.
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:I was like, I wonder, I don't
even know why they're interviewing
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:me a second time right now.
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:Um, but that interview and I said it
when I got off it, I was like, I really
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:think that I might have just gotten
this and it wasn't anything technical.
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:Uh, they did ask a little bit about
my experience, but you just kind
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:of go into these interviews and
you kind of feel the vibe with the
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:people that you're going to work for.
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:And I just thought the vibe was great.
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:You know, I thought they'd be
great people to work for and it
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:got me really excited about it.
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:And.
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:You just say, here I
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:Avery: am.
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:I think that's so interesting and
I love that, that the interviews,
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:sometimes they're super scary, but a
lot of the times they're just like,
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:okay, does this person seem like
they have enough technical skills
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:and are they able to learn the rest?
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:I know that's one of the
things you mentioned.
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:It's like, maybe I don't know healthcare
yet, but I'm, I'm willing to learn that.
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:Um, I want to go back to that phrase.
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:Sometimes it is hard to not feel defeated.
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:Uh, what were you feeling
when, when you posted that?
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:Speaker 3: I think I
was a little bit upset.
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:Um.
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:Probably defeated, honestly, because
I just, I felt like this, when I'm
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:sure there are a lot of people like
me out there where, you know, you're
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:applying to so many jobs and you're
not hearing back that when you get that
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:first interview with that company, no
matter what company it is, you feel
340
:like, all right, this is my shot.
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:I got to get this.
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:And that's how I felt with this company.
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:And I, like I said to you, I, I feel
like the first interview didn't go as
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:well as I, not that it didn't go well.
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:It just, I know what they were expecting
and I didn't think that was me.
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:So that, it kind of stunk.
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:Um, but at the same time, like I knew
how badly I wanted to change what I was
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:doing or change my career path, that it
was still driving me because, you know,
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:You know, I talked to my family about it
and they're like, well, even if you don't
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:get it, you're not just going to stop.
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:And I was like, yeah, you're right.
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:There's really no point feeling defeated
because I'm not going to just stop.
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:I, you know, you want to keep
going until you get that ultimate
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:goal of getting a new job.
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:And I think that's where the staying
positive portion is, is really.
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:Avery: Uh, I love the fact
that you didn't stop applying.
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:A lot of people land interviews
and then they stop applying.
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:Um, and it's so bad because when you
ultimately don't get that job, I mean,
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:you did in this case, but when you
usually don't get that job, you have,
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:you have to start all over again and
interview processes might take one month.
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:So it's like.
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:You, for one month, you basically
had no new applications, no new
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:interviews coming your way, and
you're starting over from scratch.
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:So I love that you,
that you kept applying.
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:Uh, let's talk a little bit
about your job that you have now.
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:Um, so it's senior reimbursement analyst.
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:Just go ahead and talk a little bit
about, you know, how you use data at
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:that job and what you actually do.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:So healthcare companies have contracts
with every hospital pretty much.
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:Um, and these hospitals contract us.
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:To maximize their revenue.
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:So what I do throughout the day is I read
through these contracts, uh, that the
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:healthcare companies in the hospitals
have, and I try to maximize revenue for
375
:So we have what we have called a portal,
uh, where I do a lot of data validation,
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:uh, and data cleaning, meaning I go
through this year's contracts and probably
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:the contract from the year before, or
even two years ago, and I make sure
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:that these price points like make sense.
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:So, um, what does that mean exactly?
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:Like, if last year was.
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:You know, the maximum
price they would charge.
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:Let's just keep it simple.
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:It's 500 at 70%.
384
:Uh, and this year I need to make sure
that they're not going to, I don't
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:know, 2, 000 at that same percentage.
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:It just wouldn't really make sense.
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:Uh, so that's where the, the
validation comes in to kind of make
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:sure that those numbers are correct.
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:And if I feel like they're super
off, then I'll contact the, uh,
390
:the contacts that our company has.
391
:Um, To make sure that this is
specifically what they want.
392
:Uh, and then I do some work in Excel.
393
:Uh, specifically with tables, not, not
actually really pivot tables, little
394
:bit, little bit of pivot tables, but
more so table work, uh, VLOOKUPs.
395
:Pretty much everything
that we do in your program.
396
:Um, it's actually funny because
one of the, in training, uh, my
397
:boss was talking about VLOOKUP.
398
:So I was like, Oh, do
you guys use XLOOKUP?
399
:And my boss was like, I
don't even know what that is.
400
:And I was like, it just
makes VLOOKUP a lot easier.
401
:That's all.
402
:Um, so, um, a lot of the work is
done in Excel, uh, which I feel
403
:like for most entry level data
jobs, it's perfect because you
404
:don't know it until you actually get
into it, but Excel is, is perfect.
405
:Pretty user friendly and you know,
you know how to do a lot of it.
406
:Or at least what is
needed for the job tasks.
407
:And anything you don't really know,
it's relatively easy to look up.
408
:I'm not really making complex SQL code
yet or Python codes, but I'm kind of
409
:looking forward to eventually jumping
into that and for this there is.
410
:A lot of room to growth, but yeah,
that's what my day to day pretty
411
:much looks like is just looking
through these contracts or, you know,
412
:helping people with, uh, fixing up
Excel codes and things like that.
413
:Avery: Well, that's one of the things
that we try to talk about in the
414
:program as well, is just like, let's
get your foot in the door and then you
415
:can learn the rest of it on the job.
416
:And one of the things you mentioned,
uh, when we were talking before
417
:the call was just like how
there's lots of room for growth.
418
:At this company, there's lots of, uh,
different data roles that you could
419
:eventually, you know, grow into as
you continue to, to have experience,
420
:uh, as, as you, as you learn and
as you get better, uh, data skills.
421
:Um, what, what other
differences has there been?
422
:What other surprises has there
been from transitioning to like
423
:a data role from a teacher role?
424
:What has been a big surprise to you?
425
:Speaker 3: I think the most
surprising thing or the thing that
426
:I really have enjoyed the most
is just the flexibility of it.
427
:Um, You know, I can log on at 8 o'clock
and, you know, then go take an hour
428
:lunch or, or go take my car to get an
oil change if I need to, and then come
429
:back and finish work at 4 or 5 o'clock,
whatever it is, just as long as you get
430
:your work done, I feel like for me, at
least as a teacher, there is a lot of.
431
:Not necessarily micromanaging, I guess
a little bit of it, but also there's
432
:always something that pops up, right?
433
:There's always something that popped
up in the school day where it just
434
:kind of not necessarily derails your
day, but it makes, certainly makes
435
:your life a lot more challenging.
436
:And I'm not saying that can't happen at
this job, but it just feels like, you
437
:know, your boss, trust, like my boss,
trust me, she gives me the work to do.
438
:I go ahead and do it.
439
:If I have questions, I message
her, you know, if not, we just
440
:go about each of our days.
441
:And that's something that has really
been not necessarily surprising,
442
:but I guess a little bit because
I didn't really know how the
443
:corporate world necessarily worked.
444
:I've been so used to school for the last
X amount of years of my life, and that's
445
:something that I've really enjoyed.
446
:And then just obviously remote work is
it's nice that I could run downstairs.
447
:Make a protein shake and then come
back upstairs and not miss a beat.
448
:Avery: Not, not a whole lot of, uh,
remote work and teaching and also
449
:not a whole lot of flexibility.
450
:It's like, it's like if you, if you
want to start working at 7am, well,
451
:there's like no students there at 7am.
452
:If you want to start working
at like 9am or whatever, right?
453
:There's like students who
have been waiting there for
454
:like an hour or whatever.
455
:So, uh, a little bit different in like
the data world, the, just obviously
456
:like not really any shifts and, um, the
deadlines are more, more flexible, softer
457
:than they would be in teaching because,
uh, that's just, that's just kind of how
458
:business works versus how teaching works.
459
:Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think
that you need to be able to
460
:prioritize things, right?
461
:Like, they'll give you
a list of things to do.
462
:Uh, and you just kind of do your
best to, to get them done or to,
463
:to do whatever they ask really.
464
:And, and for the most part, like you
just said, it's, it's relatively soft,
465
:you know, deadlines, unless, you know,
it's my boss might reach out to me and
466
:say, Hey, I need this done by Wednesday.
467
:Well, okay.
468
:Then that's first priority, right?
469
:You just change up what you're doing
and, and go from there, but it's
470
:been, the switch has been awesome.
471
:It has definitely been great.
472
:Avery: Any regrets?
473
:Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
474
:I think I told you the only thing I really
miss is, is coaching, but I could always
475
:go back to that if I really wanted to.
476
:Avery: So, so you're pretty
happy in the new role.
477
:Speaker 3: Definitely.
478
:Definitely happy in the new role.
479
:Um, I, I really like, and for any other
teachers, I think for me personally,
480
:it was, I couldn't see myself.
481
:In doing the same thing in the
classroom for the next 45 years,
482
:because I didn't really want to be a
principal or, um, you know, a supervisor
483
:or anything like that with here.
484
:Like, we just talked about
there's there's so many different
485
:opportunities for growth.
486
:You know, I could be a pricing analyst,
or I could go and be just a normal
487
:data analyst that they have here.
488
:Um, you know, I could stay
and do this for a while.
489
:And so on and so forth, but
there, there is a lot of different
490
:opportunities for growth.
491
:So definitely no regrets and something
that I'm really excited about.
492
:I mean, I personally don't care.
493
:What are they going to say to me?
494
:Right.
495
:I didn't know if you wanted to put that
out there for them, but I would just
496
:like, well, yeah, go ahead and say it.
497
:All I was going to say was like, I, I feel
like learning the skills is great and all,
498
:but I also, you know, I don't know how
much we want to talk about, talk about
499
:money on here, but I really, I think it
was, I paid like 12 grand to learn skills,
500
:which is how much you could pay for a
master's program, which in all likelihood.
501
:They also don't set you up with
the portfolio or networking, right?
502
:So essentially I paid, I paid for
what would be the equivalent of a
503
:master's program and got none of the
portfolio or networking that I could
504
:have done here first for 11, 000 less.
505
:And that's the only regret that I have
when we were talking about regrets.
506
:That's the only regret that I have is
that I could have just started with this.
507
:You know, I had a decent bit of skills.
508
:That I already knew could have learned
it better through this and saved 11,
509
:Avery: 000.
510
:Let me ask you why you didn't
do that in the first place.
511
:What, what was holding you back?
512
:Speaker 3: So I don't think I really
knew much about what was out there.
513
:I didn't do enough research to
find the best program for me.
514
:I think I just, Honestly,
I just saw this ad.
515
:I was like, Oh, I mean,
it's a six month program.
516
:I only got to do it three days a week.
517
:I'll learn some skills and I feel
like I'm going to job right after.
518
:And I, I literally thought I'd be able
to get a job right after doing it.
519
:Uh, and that's just, this is not how
it works, but I don't know if that's
520
:me being naive or me just not really
knowing much about the corporate world.
521
:Being a teacher.
522
:Avery: I don't think it's you being naive.
523
:I think, I think all these institutions.
524
:Have good intentions.
525
:Uh, I will say a lot of these institutions
use brand name to kind of woo you in.
526
:So for example, I was a bootcamp
professor at MIT, right?
527
:I wasn't employed by MIT.
528
:In fact, all the people who
run the bootcamp were not ran.
529
:They're not employed by MIT.
530
:It was a third party service
that was basically promoting
531
:MIT's professors recorded video.
532
:Yeah.
533
:Yeah.
534
:Speaker 3: Because if you, I, if
I go to my professor's LinkedIn,
535
:it doesn't say Rutgers university.
536
:I think it's like edX
or something like that.
537
:Avery: Yep.
538
:Yep.
539
:EdX is a, is a big one.
540
:Um, so that's, that's one thing is like,
they're, they're kind of using brand names
541
:and, and, and people trust brand names.
542
:Like, I think that's another thing
with the Google analytics certificate
543
:is it has Google's name on it.
544
:So it must be good.
545
:It's way too long.
546
:It teaches you the wrong stuff.
547
:There's not even a project.
548
:There's no networking,
but it has Google's name.
549
:So it has to be good.
550
:Speaker 3: I was just going to
say, that's the other thing.
551
:Like, I feel like your program
specifically focuses on what you
552
:need to know right now to help you
get out of and where you need to be.
553
:And then like we've talked about, you can
go and learn everything else after that.
554
:Whereas this program that I did at
Rutgers, I, I swear to you, it was
555
:Excel, VBA, Python, SQL, HTML, Java.
556
:Machine learning all of it in a six
month period and it was just information
557
:after information and you never
stopped to even think about what you
558
:were going to do after this because
you were so bogged down in trying to
559
:learn the information right now, right?
560
:So there was no me thinking like, oh, I
have to go talk to somebody to help me.
561
:You know, find a job here, or I need to,
um, display this better because the way
562
:things like that are promoted is that
this, you're going to make a portfolio.
563
:That's just your GitHub.
564
:And like we've talked about, no,
no one is going to look at that
565
:Avery: a hundred percent.
566
:It's funny.
567
:Cause I mean, I went through college
thinking the exact same thing, right?
568
:Where it's like, Oh, those
teach me everything that
569
:I'm going to use on the job.
570
:Well, what you actually use on the
job and what you learn in college
571
:are two very different things.
572
:Uh, and I don't think
there's a whole lot of.
573
:Time and thought going into a lot of these
programs of like, uh, we're just going to
574
:teach them everything and we're just not
going to update the curriculum at all.
575
:But like teaching, first off teaching
VBA, I think at this point is pretty dumb.
576
:I think VBA is going pretty
extinct, uh, here in a second.
577
:I don't think
578
:Speaker 3: anyone uses it.
579
:Avery: Yeah, it's, it's, there's
definitely some people out there.
580
:Who are older, who are still using it.
581
:But I think any coding is kind
of getting replaced by Python.
582
:Even Microsoft's putting Python
inside of Excel, I think is a
583
:pretty big admission on their part
that they see it going downhill.
584
:Uh, learning HTML as any sort
of data professional, especially
585
:early on is, is kind of silly.
586
:That's not used very often.
587
:There are.
588
:Instances where you're using, where you're
creating like web applications, that it
589
:is handy, but it's definitely not like
needed to land your first job or your
590
:second job, the majority of the time.
591
:So they kind of just throw
a bunch of skills at you.
592
:And, and honestly, learning
the skills is fun and you feel
593
:like you're making progress.
594
:I think that's how I felt hard.
595
:Yeah.
596
:Like networking, like you, you are this
close to a job and you said, quote.
597
:It's hard to not feel defeated.
598
:And little did you know, two weeks
later, you're going to have a
599
:job that you're super stoked on.
600
:Uh, but learning skills feels good.
601
:You can see progress networking.
602
:You can't really see the progress.
603
:Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunately not.
604
:Um, and you know what the funny
thing is, they didn't even
605
:teach us R in that program.
606
:R wasn't, we learned pretty
much everything, never R.
607
:Avery: Oh, wow.
608
:They just haven't.
609
:Yeah, it was, it was
610
:Speaker 3: some, I mean, we
did some really, really in
611
:depth stuff, uh, for sure.
612
:Uh, I mean, towards the end we were
doing machine learning, so I'm like,
613
:I was training models and stuff
like that, which again, awesome,
614
:but not gonna help me get a job.
615
:Avery: By itself, that's.
616
:Speaker 3: No, not by itself.
617
:Avery: One of the things that we
talked about in the program at first
618
:is like You're going to work like 90,
000 hours, uh, in, in your lifetime.
619
:Do you really want to be doing something
that you don't necessarily love?
620
:Um, so I'm glad, I'm glad you, you
made the investment and you bet on
621
:yourself, uh, bet on your future.
622
:You're like, I'm going to
enjoy these 90, 000 hours.
623
:I'm going to, I'm going to be doing it
from home and not have to worry about.
624
:You know, what parents are saying
about what I said to their kids
625
:or vice versa or whatever, right?
626
:Like, uh, live, live life a little bit
with more, more freedom and on your terms.
627
:Okay.
628
:Well, awesome, Thomas.
629
:We'll have your LinkedIn information
and the show notes down below.
630
:Can people reach out to you
if they have any questions?
631
:Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
632
:Anytime.
633
:Avery: Okay, sweet.
634
:I think everyone needs to follow
Thomas's example, uh, here and, uh,
635
:really focus on the cold messaging.
636
:I think that was a big part and
the, the portfolio, uh, really the
637
:P in the end of, of the SPN method.
638
:Yeah, absolutely.
639
:Thanks for being such
a good example of it.
640
:Uh, we really appreciate it.
641
:Speaker 3: Of course.
642
:Anytime.